One year of Phoenix Forums!

[mnrvovrfc]

Around this date has become our first anniversary! Hooray!

I want to thank SMcNeill, bplus, Pete, DSMan195276 and many others that made this forum possible and are keeping it going.

What happened around this time last year was regrettable, but it served as a good lesson in social networking or something else. It gave us the opportunity to begin something else based on what happened before, erm, if you know what I mean.
Long life to QB64PE, whether or not it gets another update.

Hold the wine cup high -- on this forum only because I don't drink in real life -- wishing long life to this programming system, for the sake of everyone. Not just the guys that digged QBasic in the 1990's and decade-2000's. Not just a self-frustrated programmer like myself that has to compile a 100-line program about 50 times to get it right which is the main reason why he/she cannot begin any "large" projects.

[SMcNeill]

I don't remember if I announced it here on the forums, or not, but on April 1st I paid for and renewed our domain and servers for another year -- so QB64PE isn't going away anywhere anytime soon. 



Donations for the last year came up to about $210.00, and total renewal costs were about $260.00 (if anyone's interested), with the final $50.00 coming from yours truly.  Our costs are actually quite manageable, and that's even with me not trying to promote the Patreon or to spam anyone for donations, or sell advertising space or any of that other junk.  I truly don't foresee it being an issue for us to stay up and going for the indefinite future.

  Long life to QB64PE, whether or not it gets another update.

We'll be getting more updates.  It's just that the things folks are working on right now are rather large in scope and will take a bit for implementation and testing.  We're pushing for changes to the input library to help remove those unregistered and mismapped keystrokes (I think all the _BUTTON and _DEVICE inputs are fixed now, but there's still work ongoing for _KEYHIT, _KEYDOWN, and INKEY$).  The font library is being replaced and updated, which should do several things for us.  (Key is a basic increase in print speeds of anywhere from 200% to 600%, from initial testing.  PrintWidth is getting a fix, so it now calculates variable width string size about 900% faster.  Fonts are being cached better, printed faster, and hopefully will be rendering better with less cut-off, in the future.)

Both of those are MAJOR fixes and require a lot of work behind the scenes with QB64PE, so I hope folks can understand why we haven't pushed an updated version out for the last little while.  Hopefully the next update will come Soon(tm), but since we're all just hobbyists working on this in our spare time as life allows us too, don't expect any sort of release date or deadline to ever be announced.  It'll just get here when it gets here, and we all hope it's Soon(tm), just like the rest of y'all. 

[bplus]

Thanks again to Steve and Cheers!

Our next goal: Be able to Google QB64pe or have it come up when we Google QB64, it doesn't last time I checked on a Nook device.

And I hope Pete is OK.

[SMcNeill]

Thanks again to Steve and Cheers!

Our next goal: Be able to Google QB64pe or have it come up when we Google QB64, it doesn't last time I checked on a Nook device.

And I hope Pete is OK.

Part of that is the way our SEO is screwed up.  When I bought the domain from hostgator, they had a WordPress setup already in place so folks could just jump in and make a Wordpress site.  All we needed at the time was a simple set of forums, so I did the one-click forum installation setup for us and that's how we got these forums and all up just a few hours after RC Cola deleted and took down our .net home.  Somewhere along the way, hostgator is trying to use SEO on the default Wordpress site -- which we don't even have, nor use at all -- and it considers the forums to be a subset of that.  I'll certainly admit to not being any sort of expert for webhosting, optimization, and sorting out this type of issue, though I keep learning more about it as time and experimentation goes along.  I *think* if I ever just completely deleted the Wordpress junk, it'd be a breeze to work out the SEO afterwards, but what I'm worried about is just what would happen to the forums and all if I did so?  Would *JUST* Wordpress disappear, or would our whole forum setup/database get corrupted or be deleted with it?  A backup and restore could probably fix any issues, but how long would the forums be down for to do so?  Is it really worth the hassle and the chance that something could go wrong, to mess with what's currently working??

Personally, I don't think so.  Sure, we might not be the easiest to find on the google search listing, but BASIC has a limited audience nowadays, and I think simple word of mouth and existing users sharing links to our site and Discord is enough for the serious users out there to find us.   When I do a Goggle search for QB64, we come up about 6th on the result list -- even with the SEO acting goofy.  Honestly, I think that's pretty good since we're technically QB64PE now and not just QB64. 

[bplus]

Confirmed from my computer Browser it does come up around 6 funny how .com comes up first and 2nd and...

Hanging out at that other place I see allot of old QB fans wandering in.

Update: just rechecked Nook (Chrome Browser) and now #5! wow that was quick!

Yeah! I guess nothing is broke, so don't "fix".

[vince]

go team Steve!

[Sprezzo]

Really gonna make me do it? Force my elbow to make the connection between "BASIC has a limited audience nowadays" and "we might not be the easiest to find on the google search listing" as if one does not cause the other. Our Kix cereal tester concludes there's nothing to fix either...and I wonder if we're asking the wrong people the wrong questions when it comes to a holistic view qb64's health.

When it comes to popularity and outreach, I raise these questions to the rest of you:

(i) Does anyone actually care if this language is used? If this turns out to be mostly "no", we're at stage 4 diagnosis already. The compiler and its users are in hospice care. It's already a big event when someone leaves. Admin may refresh the flowers once in a while so the room looks alive (spring banner), but the replacement rate is under-unity for sure. (And please if you want to refute this, don't show me the last 2 weeks or months worth of data. The number of neurons per cubic meter has been decreasing in the long-term.)

(ii) Does anyone see what needs to be done with the existing digital assets, supposing we wanted more flourishing of human activity? Plenty of us do. If the old model was any help, I point out that qb64pe has no formal website, no magnet for the search engines. The forums are a time-tested horrible way to archive projects and work in general. The site qb64.com site is basically a tombstone, so I would almost count it out, except it happens to work. People join that discord all the time.

(iii) Is anyone flaunting their stuff on twitter or the socials? We need to bring all that together. If nobody is trying this, or something like this, then we really do have nothing to talk about.

If any of the stuff I just raised seems like a job you want to get started with, consider your permission had. Consider yourself asked. In different places there's discussion of making a better website, having some kind of e-zine, all that classic stuff that made the web cozy. If you want in on the bleeding edge, speak up. Get into discord. It's only a damn chatroom. How scary is it? 

[mnrvovrfc]

Some of us won't (as well as can't) sign up to get a phone, whether or not it could be free, only to be able to create an account with some lame-ass social-networking site!

Otherwise it's a good question: do young people care QB64 exists?

I'd tell you one thing. I posted in another forum about QB64PE. There was zero interest.

I was once asked to become Linux package maintainer for this product. No thank you. I despise Arch Linux User Repository, that's bad enough like a toxic waste dump. But it was for a thing based on Slackware. "Can't you do it yourself if you're intelligent enough?" "No I need to find out if I have enough memory so I could reduce it more."

Yes I forgot people want it as small as they thought it was in the 1980's and 1990's, but with the speed of 8-core processors. Something to talk about, right? I have to watch more Youtube or do something else to see if the same thing is being done with Python, Haskell, Lua, Rust etc. "Make it faster or I won't accept it released into the public!" "It has to be object-oriented!"

Another thing that is troubling that I keep seeing: people are still on QB64 v2.0.2!

"Well I don't need the new functionality, why upgrade?" Has Windows Update made them that afraid to upgrade anything?

"Now that Defender eats my code, so I won't upgrade, I like what I have now and don't wish to lose it." Fair enough. Blame Microsoft.

Oh well everytime the help system falls out, "No I will not update again! I like it how it is now!"

I should be the same way trying to compile a program and because there is no "detailed" debugger like what could be had with payware, I cannot see one line in the program which has logic which throws the whole thing off. Nobody likes that, even though a programmer from the 1980's could shrug at that.

We have like four people ever posting here admitting openly they use this programming system on Apple Macintosh. They are truly the brave and distinguished ones! More people away from Windows should speak up to make this world a better place.

Sadly, the online "fork" is more promising, with a hope that it could work with portable devices. However that's not going to give me a kewl game like QBZERK, maybe another one Terry wrote which was "Flappy Bird" which didn't work on my computer, the screen was too tall LOL. It's not going to give me an aid to a music studio, just ringtones, music from popular TV shows and maybe mindless beeping.

This post should have been in Off-Topic restricted forum but I want everybody here to see it. Long live QB64(PE).

[Sprezzo]

Lots to unpack here minerva, thanks for your response.

QB64 is defined as QB45 + more memory + modern graphics + modern quality of life things. Whatever the stewards wanna do with that is their business, but this is the functional definition. This definition is safe regardless of how one chooses to interpret that off-the-meds post made by Galleon years ago that became the founding gospel of qb64pe. As far as compiled executables go, the core of the language is long, loooooong finished. Updates now are mostly about shiny hubcaps and polishing mirrors, up to perturbative exceptions. Recent work on Print seems nice. Point is though, anyone still using version 2.0-whatever is really not missing much.

This line of thought invokes the definition of BASIC itself. Back in the day, BASIC meant you can walk up to a computer - BASIC was already on there in one way or another - and proceed to start making stuff right off the cuff. No downloads, no forking, no nothing. What's the modern-day equivalence of this? Everyone ready for the bucket of ice water? For that spirit to be still alive, especially considering today's devices, then the browser is your only answer. A growing percentage of us have known this for a long time, and the browser-based versions, which is NOT a synonym for online-only, are flourishing and surpassing qb64 vanilla in many ways.

Which brings me to qbjs, just momentarily. Talking directly to you mn, Terry's Flappy Bird game was implemented in qbjs months ago. Follow this link to play it in a single click: Samples · boxgaming/qbjs Wiki · GitHub (https://github.com/boxgaming/qbjs/wiki/Samples) Lots of stuff is already implemented in qbjs, it's acceleration has been remarkable over the past year or so. All thanks to @dbox and whoever helps him out, but that's beside the point. All that stuff you say about antivirus and defender and that entire apparatus can be dispensed with in light of qbjs too, just sayin.

Aaaaanyway, things are rumbling again. It's been a year, things are still pretty shabby overall and people are getting itchy. We either work on something coherent or watch the cults and sects drift away from all the mutual infighting. This place is too small for a civil war, banning should be banned. If the stewards claim to be leaders, let's urge them to lead. Lead by example. Civility trickles downward and there is a HUGE Gordian knot of uncivility at the top of this thing.

[SMcNeill]

The problem, for me, with QBJS is that it's more JavaScript than it is BASIC.  Take a look at the last example shared of it in our forums:

Code: (Select All)

Dim img
img = _LoadImage("https://images01.military.com/sites/default/files/styles/full/public/2021-04/chucknorris.jpeg.jpg?itok=2b4A6n29")
_PutImage , img
_Fullscreen

Do
    _Delay 2

    Dim result As Object
    result = Fetch("https://api.chucknorris.io/jokes/random")

    If result.ok Then
        Dim obj As Object
        obj = JSON.parse(result.text)
        Say obj.value   
    End If
Loop


Sub Say (text As String)
    $If Javascript Then
        var synth = window.speechSynthesis;
        if (synth) {
            var utterance = new SpeechSynthesisUtterance(text);
            synth.speak(utterance);   
            while (synth.speaking) {
                await QB.sub__Delay(.5);
            }
            success = -1;
        }
    $End If
End Sub

Dim result As Object   <-- What type is an Object?  It's not one from BASIC

result = Fetch(...)  <-- What command is Fetch?  It's not one from BASIC

IF result.ok THEN  <-- Apparently result is a type with a subtype in it?  Again, this isn't from BASIC..

obj = JSON.parse(...)  <-- Another not BASIC

SUB say  <-- The contents here are 100% Javascript; not BASIC

---

Not to look down on dbox's creation or anything, but from what I can see, it seems like it'd be almost as simple to just learn JavaScript itself, rather than having to learn JavaScript + QBJS as a front-end engine.  

BASIC is an oooold language, for old-time programmers, and for me personally, QB64PE does exactly what I want it to do for me.  I don't care about having code I can copy and carry over into every browser out there in the world.  As a point of fact, I don't generally even care for most browser-based games or applications out there.  Sure, it's convenient to be able to tap on the phone or iPad and quickly type in a note or read a webpage, but it's just not that great for things that I actually like to do with my PC.  As long as QB64PE can take my code (QB45 + more memory + graphics + modern quality of life stuff) and turn it into a working EXE which I can run from my home machine, I'll stick with it.  Believe it or not, but I've got two different PCs here at home which don't ever connect to the internet, and as such they have no browser installed on them.  An EXE works and plays just fine for me on those PCs, but QBJS wouldn't be much use at all in that situation.

Different tools for different folks, and that's what's great about all these different projects -- folks can pick and choose what's best suited for their own needs.