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The whole problem here is that you guys always make assumptions how things work.
WHO gave you the instruction that a keyword needs to be highlighted for the F1 help? Where is that written down in the Wiki?
F1 always was, and is, and hopefully will ever remain: "Help for keyword under cursor"
So what happens with your TAB(10)?
Doesn't matter if you use the keyboard or the mouse to highlight the word TAB, after that the open paranthesis is under the cursor, and now you press F1... Do we have a help page for the paranthesis? Do we even need one for it?
QB64(pe) does very well know about its own keywords and its delimiters (such as paranthesis and all kinds of operators), that's why its able to do automatic code formatting and keyword casing, you don't need to go "Oh boy, here's the keyword I mean, did highlight it for you".
Highligting is something you do for copy'n'paste operations, or to apply special properties to, like here in the forum eg. highligting text and than apply the bold style to it.
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10-08-2022, 04:12 PM
I tell you my little Rho-seanne Rho-seannadanna. "It's always something!" @3-min on.
Rho, I feel your pain. When I was working on my office software, the size of the both the compiler and ide projects put together, my wife would point out something it already had a way of doing, but she had a different way of wanting to do itt, which it didn't support. That used to drive me crazy. I eventually realized it was just a vulnerability in the software, and took measures to either...
1) Document better what could and could not be done.
2) Mad a routine that handled the unaddressed condition.
3) Provided a popup alert that informed the user how to use what they were attempting to achieve, successfully.
4) Disabled the routine.
Since the IDE already has a cursor method for providing keyword help, I'd probably go with action 1 or 3. That's if I was a project developer and had both the time and no other more prioritized coding projects in the mix at the moment. Now take that for a grain of salt, because I'm not a project developer, and words are cheap compared to "statements," which take a lot longer to make into a function; however, I'd be happy to put something in the Wiki to address this the issue Phil had while trying to use the F1 Help.
Thoughts?
Pete
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What we need is a wiki page which describes the usage of the IDE in detail. Our wiki just covers the language keywords and common programming topics, but no describtion of the IDE.
But honestly, I bet it wouldn't prevent these things happening, as most (especially younger) people do not have the patience anymore to find solutions themselfs by working through books or documentation.
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Good point. I feel bad for those folks who don't understand over-documenting also results in fewer reads.
I'm more intuitive, but lucky for me, I'm also pretty tenacious. (That's two qualities, stick-to-it-ive-ness and beauty... oh wait, I meant... and insightful.)
Pete
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10-09-2022, 09:53 AM
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2022, 10:09 AM by PhilOfPerth.)
(10-08-2022, 08:22 AM)RhoSigma Wrote: The whole problem here is that you guys always make assumptions how things work.
WHO gave you the instruction that a keyword needs to be highlighted for the F1 help? Where is that written down in the Wiki?
F1 always was, and is, and hopefully will ever remain: "Help for keyword under cursor"
So what happens with your TAB(10)?
Doesn't matter if you use the keyboard or the mouse to highlight the word TAB, after that the open paranthesis is under the cursor, and now you press F1... Do we have a help page for the paranthesis? Do we even need one for it?
QB64(pe) does very well know about its own keywords and its delimiters (such as paranthesis and all kinds of operators), that's why its able to do automatic code formatting and keyword casing, you don't need to go "Oh boy, here's the keyword I mean, did highlight it for you".
Highligting is something you do for copy'n'paste operations, or to apply special properties to, like here in the forum eg. highligting text and than apply the bold style to it. The "whole problem here" is that "you guys" can't accept the fact that something that's crystal clear to the mega-intelligent may need some clarification for the less mentally-endowed!
From the info I've gleaned from using this forum, f1 was a legit way to get help on keywords. Now I know differently, but I think it needs to be made clearer.
Of all the places on Earth, and all the planets in the Universe, I'd rather live here (Perth, W.A.) 
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10-09-2022, 04:11 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2022, 04:11 PM by Pete.)
Yep, age old problem. Developers get ruffled when the conditions to address every possible outcome become too involved, and users become ruffled when they use a particular function and don't get the anticipated results. My old professional programmer pal, Kewbie, used to say there is no such thing as a finished program. It's funny, because it's true. What's sad is the aspect of losing anyone over this age old problem. I think Rob an Fell are no longer active because of this, and "luke" well, I think he just got tired of all the BS on Discord leading up to the turnover. Oh well, what's in a name, Discord? I guess bitch.com was already taken.
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This is an interesting thing because I specifically remember that highlighting something like "PRINT USING" would only show the help page for "PRINT USING" and not give the popup for all the others. Now it doesn't work. Very odd. That's ok, though.
Ask me about Windows API and maybe some Linux stuff
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10-10-2022, 02:43 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2022, 02:49 PM by bplus.)
I remember highlighting from some time ago too but much more convenient to just move cursor to word and hit FN+F1 (for my keyboard I need 2 keys, just F1 gets me MS Help).
@PhilOfPerth Do you have a keyboard where you have to use an Fn or fn key along with the F1, F2, ... keys (which are on top row of hardware functions like muting sound or brightening the screen) ?
b = b + ...
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BTW for print using in IDE, I point to "using" and +Fn+F1, nothing happens, but if I point to "print" I get a menu including "print using".
b = b + ...
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(10-10-2022, 02:43 PM)bplus Wrote: @PhilOfPerth Do you have a keyboard where you have to use an Fn or fn key along with the F1, F2, ... keys (which are on top row of hardware functions like muting sound or brightening the screen) ? Usually this is a laptop keyboard, mine is HP for instance. Especially the "budget" computers that are small enough that cannot have numeric keypad.
It might not make a difference with a help system that doesn't "behave" itself LOL. Programming context-sensitive help is harder than it looks. Programming any help into a "libre open-source" program seems to be too much for the abilities of some of the most talented coders on earth.
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